Is Pure Romance Playing B next year?

[Michigan player]

Also, what about EAP, is anyone joining the Conference? Just trying to get a feel of whats happening. I know Mobile 1 is playing B and the Pointe After.

[bombsaway]

not speaking for either team but i guess posting what ive heard.
ive heard eap is possibly playing B,with there new pickups they might have to,as for pri there is a loop hole to playing in c agian.by playing in the confrence and playing b locally i believe you can play c agian at state nats and worlds.i believe eap and pri may try this.i dunno like i said any answer is better than no answer to your post

[Michigan player]

I beleive thats what MFP Thunder did. They were C well before States though!

[bombsaway]

i wouldnt ever move up unless they make you, if there is a loop hole do it.expecially for eap and pri,eap having an awesome season and being dissapointed at worlds and have to play up next season sucks,same with pri coming in 2nd and having to move up, only way id want to move up is if i won worlds the yr before. im shure word will spread here in the next months what teams are doing for next yr

[stallings18]

I know USSSA rules state top 10% in National and World Finishers are Auto bumps.. I don't see how they could loop hole that one even with the conference. MFAB played in the conference and still had to play B.

[nkysoftball]

I know USSSA rules state top 10% in National and World Finishers are Auto bumps.. I don't see how they could loop hole that one even with the conference. MFAB played in the conference and still had to play B.

What about that team from Cali last year in D, I think it was Blue Water maybe. I never did hear an explanation as to why they were able to play D again this year.

[bombsaway]

I know USSSA rules state top 10% in National and World Finishers are Auto bumps.. I don't see how they could loop hole that one even with the conference. MFAB played in the conference and still had to play B.

they were b the year before different situation

[bombsaway]

What about that team from Cali last year in D, I think it was Blue Water maybe. I never did hear an explanation as to why they were able to play D again this year.

not to point out any teams or anything but,in d a few teams have done good in the past years and been able to stay down,i dunno what will happen all i know is i heard bout the conference thing and staying down.be nice to bring a world title back to cincy,other states are keeping there teams down,so should we

[YoungGuns]

sports55/sunrise pools out of MI prime example.... D conf. team.....

its all about money....i like mark L. alot but until he jumps off this players list thing and lightens up cincy will keep finishing in 2nd place

[wells21]

I don't know about specifiec teams. But to say that other states are doing it, doesn't make it right for us to do it. A lot of things have changed but two wrongs still do not make a right. In the end SOFTBALL loses either way I guess.

[stallings18]

What about that team from Cali last year in D, I think it was Blue Water maybe. I never did hear an explanation as to why they were able to play D again this year.

They played 4 tournaments in C then appealled to drop down or there was less than 4 guys from last years team on the team this year.

[stallings18]

they were b the year before different situation

But they were C and did well in state and got locally bumped.. So its kinda the same. They went to the conference so they should have been able to play C in the conference if they wanted and I am sure they did as much as a few complained legitly about being bumped.

[sandman35]

if you are supposed to play up then play up. i played with red a few years ago and finished 2nd in two worlds. we were forced up to A. did we think we could win A no. we did play A the next year and i will be damned if we didnt finish 4th. did pri finish in the top 10% yes so should they have to play b yes. they have a very good team and should play well in b. will they win the world you will never know until they have tried. as for eap they had an outstanding season but they didnt finish in the top 10% so if they want to play c again then so be it. only our area has to put up with a player sanctioning which in itself is a farce. you have people on the committee that have their own agendas. you have people on the committee that have no clue to what and who they are rating. if you are not on the major list then what in the hell is everyone bitching about this guy or that. line up your best 11 guys if you are good enough to win that day then you will if you are not you wont. go practice and get better at your craft and then the next time you might be. this discussion is now over until someone has a better view on it.
thanks for listening to my ramble
i love f'ing softball and i can still play a little bit
sandman

[slamit93]

But they were C and did well in state and got locally bumped.. So its kinda the same. They went to the conference so they should have been able to play C in the conference if they wanted and I am sure they did as much as a few complained legitly about being bumped.

they were B last year

[slamit93]

until he jumps off this players list thing and lightens up cincy will keep finishing in 2nd place
in a 200 team field 199 teams leave with their last game being a loss.

arguing that a players list kept a team from winning by holding them to 2nd place is a joke. If that's the case, there are 198 teams that can make some excuse as to why PRI (and whoever won) had a better chance than them.

PRI had a hell of a run, but there was a better team THAT DAY, and that's why they finished second.

Maybe we are at a disadvantage because of the players list, but when it boils down to it, Cincy had alot of good showings this year, and to say otherwise is a slap in the face to the teams that fared well.

[RetroJay23]

if you are supposed to play up then play up. i played with red a few years ago and finished 2nd in two worlds. we were forced up to A. did we think we could win A no. we did play A the next year and i will be damned if we didnt finish 4th. did pri finish in the top 10% yes so should they have to play b yes. they have a very good team and should play well in b. will they win the world you will never know until they have tried. as for eap they had an outstanding season but they didnt finish in the top 10% so if they want to play c again then so be it. only our area has to put up with a player sanctioning which in itself is a farce. you have people on the committee that have their own agendas. you have people on the committee that have no clue to what and who they are rating. if you are not on the major list then what in the hell is everyone bitching about this guy or that. line up your best 11 guys if you are good enough to win that day then you will if you are not you wont. go practice and get better at your craft and then the next time you might be. this discussion is now over until someone has a better view on it.
thanks for listening to my ramble
i love f'ing softball and i can still play a little bit
sandman

Sandman is my IDOL! I enjoy the game even more when I get to watch/HEAR him play!!

[sandman35]

we finished 4th in the d last yr forced up to c and finished 17th was it a good yr i think so. if you have to move up move up enough said. if pri played in the c world then they were c. i have played the entire gambit of softball. i have fared well in this game made a lots of friends. i will be the 1st to tell you teams i have played on have taken lots of peter and handed out lots also. guys on here get all hung up on this guy should be this and this guy should be that. if we all looked in the mirror and said i am a so and so player then the game would be alot better. do we play to win a world tourny yes are we all going to NO. so play who is in front of you and dont bitch. eap played as well as anybody for the whole yr went to the world and went 1-2. we played eap quite a few times and only beat them once in the divisional and we went 3-2 in the world. was are team better than them by the way they stuck it to us all yr no we werent, but we had a better world.
i again love this f'ing game
sandman

[YoungGuns]

pri kills it they won B state son !!!!!! all world BB approved this message

[stallings18]

they were B last year

No shiot.. The year before they were C.. Did well and got bumped locally. Read the whole post.

[RC9]

i wouldnt ever move up unless they make you, if there is a loop hole do it.expecially for eap and pri,eap having an awesome season and being dissapointed at worlds and have to play up next season sucks,same with pri coming in 2nd and having to move up, only way id want to move up is if i won worlds the yr before. im shure word will spread here in the next months what teams are doing for next yr

One of the major problems in softball is represented in this post. Unfortunately, too many guys feel the same way. Guys used to strive to play as high as possible. They wanted to be considered an B or A talent. Now guys avoid offers from B teams because they are afraid to be labeled a "B" player. Not too long ago, that was a great compliment. Now it's the plague! Like Sandman says, make yourself better, move up and play against the team across from you. That's it.

[RC9]

So let's step back in time a little. There is strong opinion on here that the list is holding Cincy back. I know it comes from a few people and there are also a few that think it's a good idea (with a few tweaks).

Let's go back to before the list. We say that the list is keeping Cincy teams down. My question is, were we burning up the worlds before the list? I can't think of too many utrip world champs before the list was instituted. I would say it's been about the same success rate. So is the list really holding us back? I say no. Some can say if it's had no effect, then why continue it. The answer to that is, I think it has. I think the message is traveling around the majority of the country. Directors are getting the message. Do we still have problem areas, of course. But we knew that would take time to resolve. So the fact that our teams are still doing about as well as they did before the list tells me that something is happening. Because if what you say is true about the list limiting Cincy teams, we would be doing significantly worse in the last couple years and we're not.

Also as we travel back a couple years, you will remember that the majority of b!tching was in reference to teams playing down and beating up on others (probably the same people now complaining about the list that is trying to govern that). Now all you hear is how the list is holding you back. What is right? Just because the list is in place, doesn't mean it's wrong. You would hear complaining either way. Even without the list, there is no guarantee of a world tournament victory. The list is still in it's infant stages and prior to that, I don't remember too many utrip rings being brought back to Cincy.

So if nothing has changed, why blame the list. I have my opinion and, yes, you're going to hear it. We live in a different generation today. No one wants to work for what they get. They want everything handed to them. They think that the formula to winning the world is getting the right bats and players. No work on their part is involved. Cheat to get the right bat so the ball goes further or flies through the infield quicker. No work needed there to make you better. And go sign up whoever your budget can afford. If they can do both those things, they can win a world. Some of that is true! Unfortunatly the bats are too readily available. So you have that piece to the puzzle. However, the players list keeps me from loading up one team with a bunch of upper class ability players. This is where the formula gets ruined for the group that wants things handed to them and we blame it on the list. I have news for ya, USSSA has rules in place and director disgression that would eventually catch these teams and move them up anyway. What the list does is gives teams "guidelines" for where to start. This saves the teams and directors time. The list takes all the downstream rules in to play and pushes them to the front of the process. In other words, would you rather know at the beginning of the season that your team is considered over or on the bubble or would you rather find out in July that "we've been watching you and based on your success this year we are moving you up". Utrip has every right to do that. Some of you may have forgotten that. So the guideline list allows coaches to build thier team based on a committee's views of players. If there was not list, that doesn't mean you couldn't get moved up based on performance. It would just take longer for you to find out.

Also, teams can and have used the list to their advantage. Say you have a team full of D players that has been very successful in D. They are going to draw attention from a director. In their defense, they can use the list to say "we are just having a good year and none of us are on the list."

Every situation is unique. We are constantly looking for ways to standardize the rules we make decisions by. We are constantly looking for new ways to grade players. It takes time. The committee is for the good of softball. Contrary to some beliefs, it is made up of people that care about softball's existance in Cincy. We are not out to get ya! Use your energy to voice suggestions and ideas rather than b!tching about it all the time. Do something about it! Or maybe you are one of the ones I describe above that doesn't want to work for anything.

[bombsaway]

One of the major problems in softball is represented in this post. Unfortunately, too many guys feel the same way. Guys used to strive to play as high as possible. They wanted to be considered an B or A talent. Now guys avoid offers from B teams because they are afraid to be labeled a "B" player. Not too long ago, that was a great compliment. Now it's the plague! Like Sandman says, make yourself better, move up and play against the team across from you. That's it.

im saying as a team not as a player.why move up to play B if you dont have to, your still going to be playing the same teams here in B/C nit's until you go to worlds thats the only time you would be playing what you call the better teams! every team this year in our C and B/C nit's had a chance to make a run and win a tourney that sounds like playing the team across from you to me!

[Kess12]

So is PRI playing B or C next year???

[wells21]

So is PRI playing B or C next year???

You tell us, what did you decide at the last team meeting? lol

[bamfwic]

quit being sissies and play where you belong-- take your a$$ whippings like a man or are you that hard up that you should play down so your team can dominate cincy--big whoop!!! i commend those who move up and get better. i know sometimes you can't take the same guys from the year before since they may not be able to compete at the next level but why play down and be a coward so you don't go 0-2 every weekend

[pezarelli711]

if they do move up who in cincy is gonna give them their ass whippins? they will play the same teams locally they played last year. if they stay c they will probably have close to the same schedule as they would if they moved up. the purpose of staying c is to have a better chance to win a world.

[Kess12]

quit being sissies and play where you belong-- take your a$$ whippings like a man or are you that hard up that you should play down so your team can dominate cincy--big whoop!!! i commend those who move up and get better. i know sometimes you can't take the same guys from the year before since they may not be able to compete at the next level but why play down and be a coward so you don't go 0-2 every weekend

I haven't noticed that PRI came on here and said a thing about where they are playing next year. Easy on the name calling.

[RC9]

I know you're talking to the other guys Kess, but I wanted to clarify my post. It wasn't directed at PRI. They, the committee and utrip will make the right decision on them. My posts are about the general public.

[Kess12]

I know Rob my post was directed at the guy I quoted. You are correct there are committees here and nationally that will tell PRI where they have to play with who they have.

On a side note I think Two-n-Out is having a drink and drown at legends you going?

[YoungGuns]

**** if they let you guys i'd move down and play D then cincy can get a world championship under its belt for once!

haha that be a fun team to watch with no HR's wooops

[sandman35]

pri is a very good team but i seen them lay eggs just like the rest of us.let me put it to you this way. i am probably the only person in cincy nky that has a d metro and an open metro title to his credit. which do i savor more i think everyone of you can answer that. i dont even know where my all tourn and tourn trophy are in the d. why wouldnt you guys want to play at the highest level possible i will never understand WHY teams play down it doesnt guarantee anything. in 07 good guys were as good as anybody in the city state nation for god sakes and we finished 4th. it doesnt matter if want to keep beating on guys and not get better for yourself and your team you have problems. i guess i just want to play against the best comp at the highest level that my team can. i guess some of you guys just want to play down to beat up on teams and make yourself feel good.
i love f'ing softball
sandman

[pezarelli711]

pri is a very good team but i seen them lay eggs just like the rest of us.let me put it to you this way. i am probably the only person in cincy nky that has a d metro and an open metro title to his credit. which do i savor more i think everyone of you can answer that. i dont even know where my all tourn and tourn trophy are in the d. why wouldnt you guys want to play at the highest level possible i will never understand WHY teams play down it doesnt guarantee anything. in 07 good guys were as good as anybody in the city state nation for god sakes and we finished 4th. it doesnt matter if want to keep beating on guys and not get better for yourself and your team you have problems. i guess i just want to play against the best comp at the highest level that my team can. i guess some of you guys just want to play down to beat up on teams and make yourself feel good.
i love f'ing softball
sandman

what diff teams are they gonna play locally? the only real diff is when they go to state nationals and worlds. i agree about the metro but its diff.

[sandman35]

there are only so many teams you can play. if you play locally and play the same teams that is just the way it is. why shouldnt we been able to play d again. people would have had a coronary. we didnt play because we wanted to play the better comp. i cant stand teams that want to stay where they are at and not try to better themselves.

[pezarelli711]

dont get me wrong i agree especially when it comes to the met. but local teams moving from d to c are moving to a higher level of comp. local teams moving from c to b will be playing the same teams for the most part because there are only a handfull of b teams locally. so the only place it would really effect the team would be national state and world ya know.

[RC9]

dont get me wrong i agree especially when it comes to the met. but local teams moving from d to c are moving to a higher level of comp. local teams moving from c to b will be playing the same teams for the most part because there are only a handfull of b teams locally. so the only place it would really effect the team would be national state and world ya know.

That may sound like a good idea (to some) around here. But aren't we then doing the same thing we complain about in other areas? I can't tell you how many times I've heard from players in this area when complaining about other areas: "Look, they played C all year and then dropped to D for the world, that's BS man!" We would be doing the same thing. Which is right? Be on the majority side and try to do things the right way or be on the (what a lot of people would consider) cheater/minority side?

[slamit93]

That may sound like a good idea (to some) around here. But aren't we then doing the same thing we complain about in other areas? I can't tell you how many times I've heard from players in this area when complaining about other areas: "Look, they played C all year and then dropped to D for the world, that's BS man!" We would be doing the same thing. Which is right? Be on the majority side and try to do things the right way or be on the (what a lot of people would consider) cheater/minority side?

which is why the solution to the problem has to start nationally and be enforced nationally.

Even beyond that though... until there is a NATIONAL PLAYER LIST that is shared by all of the major associations (which will NEVER happen) nothing will ever change.

Hell, even here in Cincinnati this year we had teams playing B in one sanction that were playing D in another by the time worlds came around.

Does anyone know what the deal with +/- sanctioning that they do in other areas is? (I know Georgia in particuliar, but I know they aren't the only ones... My understanding is that they sanction teams in all of the classes, B-E with either a + or a minus... A D+ team for example is a D team... BUT... they have to play as C for everything but NITs, state, nationals and worlds, in which they can play as D. A D- team is just like what a D team is here... they can play anything D, or they can play up if they choose to... Is this even legal in U3? If it is, why isn't this done here? Seems that it would help with the reasons to complain about sandbagging... local teams wouldn't be getting beat by sandbaggers week in and week out, and the teams that are playing post season would be able to play against similar competition until they were forced up nationally.

[wells21]

This would seem to make sense to an extent. But, all your really doing here is making an upper and a lower within each class. I think it's getting a bit out of hand when you have to classify the difference between an upper D team and a lower C team. This seems to be taking the focus off of the major issue of why teams aren't encouraged to compete at the highest level possible.

[slamit93]

why teams aren't encouraged to compete at the highest level possible.

They are "encouraged" but more often than not, the almighty dollar has the final say.

[stallings18]

Thats why players/coaches are complaining about sandbagging. They don't want to pay 275.00 for a tournament to go 0-2.. Which is understandable.. However you have teams that pay Thousands of dollars for the year to go to Nationals and Worlds then go 0-2,1-2.. It isn't fair for them either, Make it easy Do what I have said all along. It makes everyone happy!! Allow teams to sanction whatever they want.. When they qualify they play up until State..
Talking about other states. Oh they won C tournaments and they are a E team.. That might be true, However look at the teams in the tournament.. There might be 1 C team 6 D teams and the rest E.. It happens all over. USSSA is not as big in other areas like here in NKY/ Greater Cincinnati. Thats they only way they can hold NIT's in these areas is to have majority of lower division teams play in them also. Thats also why you have several of these teams that haven't played in a USSSA tournament until state or Nationals if there area don't hold a state tournament. They don't have the teams interested in there area to hold big tournaments or to sanction them.

[bombsaway]

They are "encouraged" but more often than not, the almighty dollar has the final say.

yes thats where the conference comes into play its $5 grand to be in the conference

[stallings18]

Its kinda like the NSA American Dreams/Wessel/Young Guns team.. Think they are going to gt sanctioned? If so where do you think they will? I know they wouldn't be allowed to play D in USSSA in our area.. but I know they can play D in NSA.. There isn't a director make them play anywhere, So they are going to play where they think they can compete and WIN..

[bombsaway]

Its kinda like the NSA American Dreams/Wessel/Young Guns team.. Think they are going to gt sanctioned? If so where do you think they will? I know they wouldn't be allowed to play D in USSSA in our area.. but I know they can play D in NSA.. There isn't a director make them play anywhere, So they are going to play where they think they can compete and WIN..

that team is our nsa team for now nothing in the works besides that.if we did play it would be utrip c for shure and possibly nsa b i would think.we are all c player and do have the best e player in the city but if we were utrip sanctioned we would be c im shure.

[slamit93]

Don't you have to actually be the first E player drafted to qualify as the best E player in the city?

[JSiler27]

I can see that there are people on both sides of the fence but I think RC9 and Sandman really make the most sense. All we heard when the list was made was crying. Now it seems that more and more people as time goes on is coming on board with the list. Nothing is perfect. There are ALWAYS going to be agendas and we can't always worry about what other areas of the country are getting away with. All we can do is do the best we can at managing and operating our area to the best of our abilities and let the rest fall into place. One of the most enjoyable threads to read with out all the hoopla.

[YoungGuns]

our little american dream/evil empire team in no way shape or form is playing utrip as a "team" next year RR's here and there yes we do PLAN on sanctioning NSA C with a possiblilty of trying to go to worlds. We've got a few PRI, EAP, Sports Co, MFAB, Emanon and jtap guys oh yea and an E player (haha) . very talented team for sure but its really a group of close friends just having fun. We have rolled through some tourneys here of late though!

[YoungGuns]

Don't you have to actually be the first E player drafted to qualify as the best E player in the city?

Shannon dixon doesnt count he started the year in D and moved down....
I on the other hand had been an E player my whole career! DUH

[RC9]

which is why the solution to the problem has to start nationally and be enforced nationally.

Even beyond that though... until there is a NATIONAL PLAYER LIST that is shared by all of the major associations (which will NEVER happen) nothing will ever change.

Hell, even here in Cincinnati this year we had teams playing B in one sanction that were playing D in another by the time worlds came around.

Does anyone know what the deal with +/- sanctioning that they do in other areas is? (I know Georgia in particuliar, but I know they aren't the only ones... My understanding is that they sanction teams in all of the classes, B-E with either a + or a minus... A D+ team for example is a D team... BUT... they have to play as C for everything but NITs, state, nationals and worlds, in which they can play as D. A D- team is just like what a D team is here... they can play anything D, or they can play up if they choose to... Is this even legal in U3? If it is, why isn't this done here? Seems that it would help with the reasons to complain about sandbagging... local teams wouldn't be getting beat by sandbaggers week in and week out, and the teams that are playing post season would be able to play against similar competition until they were forced up nationally.


These are ideas that can be looked in to. In Georgia they used to call their tournaments, Super C NITs and C NITS. If your team was of a competitive nature, you were classified as a Super C team. You could only play in the Super C NITS. You couldn't play in the regular C tournments. I'm not sure how they distributed awards and money, but I think it was a paid berth for a Super C win and a non-paid for a C NIT win. (i may be wrong there) But the theory was, if you weren't too sure about playing C, you could enter without getting beat up on. Kinda test the waters. Anyone could enter the super C, but they knew what they were getting into if they did. I don't think that works for C and B around here, but maybe D. The reason I don't think it does for C is because if you are entering a C tournament or are considered a C player, you know what you are getting into when entering a C tournment. It will be competitive. Something like that might work in D. Now you can take the other side and say that's what qualifiers are for, but those have almost all been eliminated anymore.